I thought I’d look at selling the Autocade Yearbook through Amazon, since people who visit the site are in the mood for shopping.
Against all my instincts, I’d bite the bullet and make bloody Jeff even richer.
But the whole sign-up process is a swindle.
Here’s what I sent to them.
Hello there:
I am following the process outlined on your page, ‘How to sell books online in 2024: a step-by-step guide’.In there, you say I can have an individual or a professional account. Only professional accounts will be charged the monthly fee, according to you.
I followed the procedure of signing up.
I began entering my details and get to a page where you say you want the $39·99 off me. But there was never any choice between choosing an individual or a professional account.
Your statement ‘Not sure which selling plan is right for you? That’s okay too. Just pick the plan that feels right for right now—you can switch at any time’ is untrue. I was never given a choice of plan.
Your system may have simply assumed that because I used a limited-liability company that it is automatically professional, but that is not the case. I think a person should be able to opt for limited liability protection if he wishes it. I assume you disagree.
Nevertheless, this cannot be changed. I cannot go back in, and delete my company information.
I went on to the chat session and your representative, Vikas, informed me that the only way to ‘downgrade’ was to complete the process. He could offer me no assurance that I will ever get the refund.
As Amazon has cheated me out of affiliate commissions in the 2000s, and has constantly refused to resolve this issue over many years, you can understand my hesitation.
AWS has made tens of thousands of dollars from me between 2012 and 2022 so you would think things would be easier for someone who has already paid you so much.
I am simply asking Amazon to honour its own statements.
I simply request that my account be a personal one.
That is all. I never selected anything on there that would have put me into a professional tier.
Please action this for me.
Thank you,
Yours faithfully,
Jack Yan
Let’s say it again: Big Tech lies.
PS.: Why don’t you try another email address, Jack, and make sure you don’t add in any company info? Sure. And this is all that does.
Let’s say it again: Big Tech doesn’t work.
So after a few refreshes, I was allowed to proceed. There was nothing, ever, about a professional account. This was completely a personal account with me being responsible at a personal level. You can even see ‘None, I am an individual’ in the blurred-out page above. And here is the next page:
Let’s say it again: Big Tech lies.
How about going to them for help? Sure, but when you hover over the ‘Send’ button, there’s a little ‘no entry’ symbol, so you can’t actually ask.
Let’s say it again: Big Tech doesn’t work.
P.PS.: Privacy Badger prevented the ‘Send’ button working. At least I’m honest. I got the form through. Amazon has so far sent copied-and-pasted responses which are totally unhelpful as none of them mirror the actual experience.
P.P.PS.: This has only been happening since 2018. We know these big tech companies are very, very slow at fixing things. I guess they will fix it around 2032.
P.P.P.PS.: The staff keep gaslighting me with a copied-and-pasted response saying I signed up for a professional account and that it’s all my fault. Fortunately, the above blurry screenshot proves otherwise, and I’ve sent this to them. As they are copying and pasting, then two can play at that game—until someone comes back with a different answer. The latest:
You are quite wrong.
I have not yet been charged for the professional account but I am concerned the payment screen has come up prompting me to feed in my credit card information.
I never selected any option relating to a professional account. Do not gaslight me.
Please see the attached screenshot. In the blurred background you can make out the words ‘None, I am an individual’.
I note that at no point during the sign-up process is anyone given the option between individual and professional accounts.
My earlier screenshot was clearly for an individual, as a business account has a different fields.
Please read my emails carefully. It is offensive that you would attempt to gaslight someone.
We can both keep copying and pasting the same thing, or someone there can try to give me some real assistance. The ball is in your court.
Sincerely,
Jack
Let’s say it again: Big Tech lies.
One of their emails did provide me with a link if I wanted to continue the dialogue from the first ticket. However, the link took me here:
After typing in the above message, Amazon responded:
Let’s say it again: Big Tech doesn’t work.
P.P.P.P.PS.: It is now 23 hours since I began this. Deepak B. from Amazon replied:
Hello from Amazon Selling Partner Support,
We understand your concern regarding the account registration and the credit card information.We truly understand your frustration due to this issue. We understand how important this is for you. We will be happy to assist you further.
Please be inform you that as per Amazon Policy, the credit card information is mandatory for all the individual and professional sellers. To maintain a trusted store for buyers and sellers, we need to verify the information that you provided during registration.
Amazon will need to verify the identity of the legal representative or beneficial owner registering the account.
The person registering the account, also known as primary contact person, will need to provide two documents – an identity document and an additional document.
We require at least two documents in order to verify your identity:
1. Identity document – A government-issued photo identity document that is used to confirm one’s identity, such as a passport or national ID. This document must match the proof of identity information selected under Identity data.
2. Additional document:
– Business Licenses: We require a document that proves that your business is valid, such as a business license or equivalent business document. This is a government issued statement displaying information on your business.
– Proof of address: We collect a proof of address document, such as bank statement or credit card statement. A bank statement is an official document issued by your bank or other financial institution that summarizes your account activity over a certain period of time – typically one month.
– Additional documents for legal and compliance obligations. Based on your business’ physical location or the store(s) in which you operate, we may request additional documents and information about your business.As the credit card information is required to verify your address as stated above.
For detailed information regarding the requirements and the reason about that, please visit the help page mentioned below:
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/help/hub/reference/external/QRP483PDN88Q3M9We highly appreciate your understanding and co-operation.
I replied:
Dear Deepak:
Thank you for your response.You state that my credit card information is required to prove my identity. That is fine.
However, this is at odds with the page I see during the application process, which states, ‘You will be charged a Professional selling subscription fee of 39.99 USD for the first month.’
Of course I find this very hard to reconcile with both your email and your sellers’ guide at https://sell.amazon.com/learn/how-to-sell-books which states, ‘If you’re only planning to sell books in your spare time, the Individual plan might be the right fit. You’ll be able to use essential selling tools to list and price books one at a time, and you’ll only pay Amazon when you have a sale.’
As explained, I have very clearly selected the individual plan.
Which of these statements is true? Because presently the application process suggests everyone is charged the professional subscription.
Are you able to guarantee that I will not be charged, even if I fill out the form, and that my credit card information will only be used to confirm my identity?
Let’s say it again: Big Tech lies. Let’s hope Deepak is the one telling the truth here and that whomever created the registration form is a fool, a liar, or both.
P.P.P.P.P.PS.: I began signing up on Thursday afternoon. It is now Friday, 11 p.m. Ajit has responded by gaslighting:
Hello from Amazon Selling Partner Support,
Thank you for reaching out to us. This is Ajit, and it will be a pleasure to assist you today.We understand your concern regarding credit card information. We can assure you that our investigation was carefully done and we put all our effort into providing the best resolution for you.
On further investigation, you have contacted us currently from your Rights owner account.
Please note that, in order to confirm the selling information, troubleshoot the issue and assist you better, we request you to contact us from your Seller Central account.
Note: When creating a case with your Seller Central account, you can request for the case to be transferred to our team (Brand Registry) directly.
We apologize for any inconvenience caused because of this.
Have a nice day.
You can see how they never resolve the issue and keep kicking up new things to gaslight you with.
Dear Ajit:
You are gaslighting me by saying I am using a ‘Rights owner account’ when I am not. Indeed I have not heard of such a thing. I have been using https://sellercentral.amazon.com all along unless you wish to explain just how a rights owner account exists at this subdomain.This is a Seller Central account. There is no reference anywhere on this page to ‘Rights owner’. I still have the previous window open and attach a screenshot of it. It is an older version of the web page that you yourself have linked me to.
I am asking for a very simple thing here: to open an individual account. I do not know why you are all dragging this out to over a day.
Amazon says publicly at https://sell.amazon.com/learn/how-to-sell-books: ‘If you’re only planning to sell books in your spare time, the Individual plan might be the right fit. You’ll be able to use essential selling tools to list and price books one at a time, and you’ll only pay Amazon when you have a sale.’
I have, as proved earlier with a screenshot, chosen an individual account.
However, I am being confronted with a payment page. I asked you to explain why.
Your colleague Deepak B. says: ‘the credit card information is required to verify your address.’
However, your payment page makes it very clear: ‘You will be charged a Professional selling subscription fee of 39.99 USD for the first month.’
As you can see, not all of your company’s representations can be reconciled.
I can see several steps from here based on everything your company has told me.
1. You can escalate this so the payment page can be bypassed. I am still happy to provide you with my credit card information in line with what Deepak has told me, but not on a page that blatantly says I will be charged;
2. Instruct me to proceed with filling in my details on the payment page but guarantee I will not be charged, and admit that the details on your page are in error.
3. Inform me that everyone gets charged (as this is what the site is doing), and that Amazon’s public representations about individual accounts not being charged are deceptive and false.
I look forward to your proposal on resolving this.
Sincerely,
Jack Yan
Let’s say it again: Big Tech lies.
To give them the benefit of the doubt, I have logged out, deleted my cookies, and logged back in again with the second account. No dice, I still get to Jeff’s money-begging page.
P.P.P.P.P.P.PS.: Saturday morning. Saikat copies and pastes something from Thursday as the “new” response. I hadn’t pasted it into this post before, so here it is:
Hello from Amazon Selling Partner Support,
After reviewing your email, we understand that you want to open an Individual selling account instead of a Professional account.I have reviewed your account and observed that the registration process has already started. Once it starts, there is no option to switch the selling plan. However, you can change the plan once the registration process is completed. You are also eligible for a one-time refund of subscription fee that will be charged to your account soon after the completion of registration process. You are only eligible for that one-off refund if you have not used any professional tools or benefits within 90 days.
Once you have finished setting up your account, downgrade your account to the Individual selling plan by following the steps outlined in the following Help page:
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/201710030?referral=[redacted]
After completing this step, contact us again requesting reimbursement of the Professional selling fee of $39.99.
Alternatively, you can ignore this enrollment process and start the registration process over with a different email address. Since this registration is not complete, you will not be charged with a subscription fee.
To open an Individual selling account, scroll to the bottom of the page, and select the Individual plan by clicking “Sign up to become an individual seller”. For more information, go to:
https://sell.amazon.com/sell
If it still brings you to the middle of your initial registration session, clear your browser cache and cookies, and try once again.Your Seller Account is missing valid banking information and therefore your Seller Account for US is not currently Active.
Please note that this information is mandatory for all sellers, both individual and professional.To activate your Seller Account for US, please enter this information as soon as possible.
For more information, please visit the below help pages:
How do I update my bank account information?
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/GWHNLFB8G85QAZ5W?referral=[redacted]
Bank account and credit card information for your seller account.
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/G19791?referral=[redacted]
We understand that this is an important issue as this is impacting your business.
Thank you for your understanding and patience.
Have a great day ahead.
Two can play at copying and pasting.
No, Saikat, this is not the issue. We did this script two days ago, and you are taking me back to where we stood on Thursday. I am already on the individual account. Please see the attachment (which has already been supplied to you): even though the screen is blurred, you can clearly tell I have selected ‘None, I am an individual’ in the relevant field.
After taking into account every response from Amazon to date, I see your next step as being one of these.
1. You can escalate this so the payment page can be bypassed. I am still happy to provide you with my credit card information in line with what Deepak has told me, but not on a page that blatantly says I will be charged.
2. Instruct me to proceed with filling in my details on the payment page but guarantee I will not be charged, and admit that the details on your page are in error.
3. Inform me that everyone gets charged (as this is what the site is doing), and that Amazon’s public representations about individual accounts not being charged are deceptive and false.
Let’s say it again: Big Tech doesn’t work.
P.P.P.P.P.P.P.PS.: Finally, what appears to be a human (Daniel M.) and not a copy-and-paste illiterate.
Hello from Amazon Selling Partner Support,
Thank you for your response! It’s my pleasure to assist.Please add your card information to complete the account registration. Once your account is created, we will be able to check the selling plan assist you further.
I hope you have a great weekend!
Quick reply this time:
Hi Daniel, thank you, finally a succinct answer. As this is a personal account, can you guarantee I will not be charged when I fill in the credit card form?
Only took three days but we might be getting somewhere.
P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.PS.: Sunday night. Probably a copy and paste but at least it doesn’t stray as far as earlier replies.
Hello from Amazon Seller Support,
Thank you for selling on Amazon. My name is Tabasum and I will be glad to assist you.I understand that you have contacted us regarding the issue that while filling the Credit Card form would that be any charges.
I further understand that this something really important for you and your business to know the answer of this query. Please do not worry I will do my best to help you.
Please note that upon filling the credit card form you will be charges for professional selling fee of $39 which is same for all sellers.
This fee can be refunded later if you downgrade your account to individual selling plan and do not use the Selling features of professional plan.
So this means that you will be charged a Professional selling subscription fee of 39.99 USD for the first month.
You will continue to be charged this fee each month if you have active listings. If you do not have active listings, you will not be charged a subscription fee in that month.
If you expand to sell in other stores, you will pay the equivalent of 39.99 USD per month, split proportionately across each country or region in which you have an active listing and charged separately in each local currency. You can downgrade at any time.
Amazon collects the lower of the applicable fees stated below and any fees communicated to you by Amazon (such as promotional fees that Amazon may provide from time to time).
This does not apply to certain sellers, such as warranty providers and other service providers, who will continue to pay selling fees in accordance with the rates provided in their program agreements.
Please check this help page for more details:
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/help/hub/reference/external/G200336920
Please be informed that we have completed our investigation on the issue and we hope you will cooperate with the given outcome.
If you have any further queries related, please create a new case as the current case is getting closed now.
Not letting them close this. I quickly added my reply:
Dear Tabasum:
Thank you. As you will have read, I opted for the Individual plan and not the Professional one, and have proven that with a screenshot.Do I correctly understand that Amazon’s public statement (at https://sell.amazon.com/learn/how-to-sell-books), ‘If you’re only planning to sell books in your spare time, the Individual plan might be the right fit. You’ll be able to use essential selling tools to list and price books one at a time, and you’ll only pay Amazon when you have a sale’ is therefore incorrect, and that every seller, regardless of plan, is charged US$39?
As I have opted for the Individual plan, and not the Professional one, can you please explain how I can ‘downgrade’?
It looks like we have enough to point out, say to the media, that Amazon lies and has probably swindled a great deal of people with this.
Let’s say it again: Big Tech lies.
P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.PS.: Monday morning. The gaslighting continues.
Hello from Amazon Selling Partner Support,
By reviewing your email, I understand that you are having issues with Pro Subscription Fees Refund.We regret the inconvenience you are experiencing with this matter, but I would be happy to help.
To protect sellers and customers, we decline requests that are not consistent with our policies. If we’ve informed you that no further action will be taken on an issue, don’t seek to obtain a different outcome by reopening the case or raising it again in other cases. Amazon may close cases or limit support if you don’t follow these guidelines. Thank you for your understanding, it means a lot to us.
We recognize that this is not the result that you were hoping for, but I want you to know that we did our best to provide you with the correct information based on our current policies. We appreciate your understanding in this matter. Sorry for any frustration or inconvenience, best regards.
Also your Seller Account is missing valid banking information and therefore your Seller Account for US is not currently Active.
To activate your Seller Account for US, please enter this information as soon as possible.
For more information, please visit the below help pages:
How do I update my bank account information?
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/GWHNLFB8G85QAZ5W?referral=A10NM0WT3R9KOQ_A2C9FJUZQUFUMM
Bank account and credit card information for your seller account.
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/G19791?referral=A10NM0WT3R9KOQ_A2C9FJUZQUFUMM
Selling Partner Support is unable to provide additional information regarding these decisions.
I am sorry this might not be the answer you were looking for, but represents Amazon’s policies at this time.
Simple reply:
No, Ahymara, once again you gaslight me. This is not the issue and I am not trying to seek a different outcome. If anything, I am trying to seek the outcome that Amazon’s own policies promise.
You have all consistently avoided answering a very, very simple question.
My question is: why am I being charged $39·99 on the Individual plan?
That is all. Answer that truthfully, without copying and pasting answers that do not address the question, and I will be happy to close this case. Till then, I will keep asking till someone answers it consistently with Amazon’s stated policies.
P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.PS.: Monday evening, and they finally locked the thread—and deleted the messages. The odds I’ll hear from this other Amazon team? Pretty slim, I’d say, since we cannot take these people at their word.
Having learned the last time I had a “dialogue” with Amazon where they gaslit me, I saved a copy of the entire web page earlier today. It will make interesting reading for the press.
P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.P.PS.: Wednesday evening, nothing more, as expected. Big Tech doesn’t like getting called out. However, this entry in Amazon’s Seller Central forums makes more sense than any of their staff. Basically, Amazon lies. Everyone gets charged. It’s up to you to sort this out.
Highlights only, as I’ve no desire to infringe this person’s copyright:
… when you first open an account, there is a verification process …
1- you fill out the forms to set up your account.
2- they charge the fee to your payment method (if they find it is not actually a credit card, account is suspended until you have a verified credit card on file … They need to make sure you have enough credit so they can charge you for any fees you rack up before you have enough sales income to cover them.)
3- Accounts that have just been opened are not yet “verified” there is a whole bunch of identity, address, credit, banking, information that needs to be verified before they fully open your account. Hence why you get immediately suspended after they “open” the account …
4- if you don’t want a professional account, Go to account settings and downgrade to an individual account at least until you finish the verification process. If you have not accessed any of the “professional” features/services like shipping templates or certain reporting features, then you may be able to request a refund of the professional selling fee but most people figure that the first month can be through of as your application fee …
And DO NOT try to close this account to give it another shot at opening a new account!!!!! Be Patient and persistent in opening this account because if you give up on this one, you will not be able to try again because this failed attempt will forever block you form opening a new Amazon account.
… This whole process is a test to see if you can follow poorly written/edited instructions that are often contradictory and delivered by bot. Also, they want to make sure you can/will follow the rules . Yes Amazon wants to onboard sellers so they can charge you fees. They want you to use as many Amazon services as possible so they can earn fees from you. They will also immediately throw you under the bus (suspend your account) at the first sign that you might be doing anything “against the rules or law” …
Let’s say it again: Big Tech lies.
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